Saturday, February 12, 2011

ተክለ ሃይማኖት የነፍሳችን መዳኛ

ከዚህ ቀደም እንደጠቆምነው የገድል ጽሑፍ ውርርስ በመኖሩ አንደኛው ከአንደኛው ለመበላለጥ እግዚአብሔርን ክርስቶስንና መንፈስ ቅዱስን አልፎ አልፎ በመጥቀስ እንዲሁም ተክለ ሃይማኖት የእግዚአብሔር አገልጋይ ነው በማለት የሚናገሩ ቃላቶች አሉበት። ይህም መጽሐፉ ተቀባይነት እንዲያገኝ ሲባል በዘዴኞች የተደረገ ጥበብ ነው።

ለነገሩ መተትንና አስማትን የሚሠሩት ሳይቀሩ በከተቧቸው ክታቦች ላይ እግዚአብሔር የሚል ጽሑፍ ያደርጉ የለ? ሰይጣንም እኮ እግዚአብሔር ብሎ ለመጥራት አይቸገርም (ዘፍ 3፥2) ሆኖም በገድለ ተክለ ሃይማኖት ስም የሚጠራውን መጽሐፍ ስናይ ግን በታሪክ እንደተገለጠው አንድ የወንጌል አገልጋይ ሰው እንደነበሩ የሚጠቁም ሲሆን ገድላችውን ጻፍን የሚሉ መናፍቃን ግን ነበሩ የተባሉትን ሰው ስም በመታከክ በክርስቶስና በእግዚአብሔር የቸርነት ሥራ ላይ ወንጀልን አስገብተዋል።

ፍሥሐ ለክሙ ወረብሐ ለነፍስክሙ ወመድኃኒተ ለሥጋክሙ ወመንጽሔ ለርስሐትክሙ…. ወሥረይ ለቁሰለ ነፍስክሙ

ትርጉም፦ ለእናንተ ተድላ ደስታችሁ ነውና ለሥጋችሁ መጠበቂያ ለነፍሳችሁ መዳኛ ኃጢአታችሁን የሚያነፃ…. ለነፍሳችሁ መድኃኒትነው ብለውታል። (ገድ ተክ ምዕ 2፥14-15)

እውነት የሆነውና በዘመናት ሁሉ ሁሉን እያሳለፈ ያለው ከወርቀ ይልቅ የነጠረ ፍጽሞ ስሕተት የማይገኝበት፣ የተፈራውና የሕያው አምላክ ቃል የሆነው መጽሐፍ ቅዱሳችን ግን በራሱ አሠራር የዓለምን ኃጢአት ሊያነጻ በጎ ፈቃዱ የሆነ እግዚአብሔር ከፍጡራን በአንዱ እንኳ እንዳይቻል ግን በእርሱ ብቻ እንዲቻል አውቆ ተቀዳሚና ተከታይ የሌለውን አንድያ ልጁን ለዚሁ እንደላከው ይናገራል።

በተለይ ጌታችን ከሴት ከተወለዱት መካከል የሚበልጠው የለም ብሎ የተናገረለት ነቢይና መንገድ ጠራጊ መጥምቁ ዮሐንስ ነዋ በግዑ ለእግዚአብሔር ዘየአትት ኃጢአተ ዓለም ትርጉም፦ የዓለምን ኃጢአት የሚያስወግድ የእግዚአብሔር በግ እነሆ በማለት ተከታዮቹንና በወቅቱ የሚሰሙትን ሁሉ ወደ እግዚአብሔር ፈቃድና ኃሳብ ዘወር እንዲሉ አድርጓል። (ዮሐ 1፥29)

በብዙ ቦታ እንዳስተዋልነው የገድላት ደራስያን ያሻቸውን ለወደዱት መስጠት ባሕላቸውና ዓላማቸው በመሆኑ ይህን በእግዚአብሔር ዕቅድ የክርስቶስ ብቻ ሥራ የሆነውን ኃጢአትን የማንጻት ግብር እነርሱ ተክለ ሃይማኖት ለሚሉት ሰው ሰጥተውት ሕዝቡ የኃጢአት ሥርየት ለማግኜት ከክርስቶስ ይልቅ በተክለ ሃይማኖት እንዲያምን አድርገዋል። ይህ ነው ታላቁ ኑፋቄ። መናፍቃን ማለት የዚህ ገድል ደራሲዎች እና ገድሉ ከመጽሐፍ ቅዱስ በልጦባቸው አይነካብን/ትክክል ነው ብለው በጭፍን የሚከራከሩ ወገኖች ናቸው። ለማንኛውም አንባቢ ይህ የኑፋቄ ትምህርት ኦርቶዶክሳዊት ቤተ ክርስቲያናችን የማትቀበለው መሆኑን እንዲያስተውል እንወዳለን። የቤተክርስቲያናችን ትምህርት እንደሆነ አድርገው የሚናገሩ፣ የሚያስምሩና እና የሚያምኑ ወገኖች እንዲያስተውሉ ለመጠቆምና ለማወያየት ይህንን ጽፈናል። 

ይቀጥላል። 
ካሳሁን አበበ  ገድል ወይስ ገደል የሚባለውን መጽሐፍ አብነት በማድረግ።

33 comments:

  1. Wey ato kassahun,

    It is surprising you quote a book that the penetes wrote to attack and undermine the EOTC. Again, the quote is deceptive. Did you hear from anyone or read in any book of the church that purports that Christ is replaced by anyone else? Why do you quote few phrases out of context? The reason probably is that you are doing the work that you have seen from your father, the D.

    In the Bible, Christ tells to His appostels that they are the light of the world while the only true light is only Himself. Do you say Christ was wrong in calling His saints as the lights of the world? However, we, the true believers of Christ, know well His words and don't confuse between Christ and the saints.

    All the saints have been called by the qualties and names of Christ by the will of God.

    1. While Christ is the only true light, He has called His saints "lights of the world" because they have disseminated the Gospel and imitated Him in their lives by following His words.

    2. While Christ is the only true salt of the world, He has given this name to His saints for the same reason above.

    3. While Christ is the only judge of of the world, He has called the saints as the "judges of the world" because the words they preach will judge all the world at the end, among others.

    So, the point is Christ has willingly given His only qualities, powers and names to those who give up everything for the sake of His name. Unfortunately, menafiqans have always uproared about these facts to deceive the innocent.

    “ለእናንተ ተድላ ደስታችሁ ነውና ለሥጋችሁ መጠበቂያ ለነፍሳችሁ መዳኛ ኃጢአታችሁን የሚያነፃ…. ለነፍሳችሁ መድኃኒት” ነው ብለውታል። (ገድ ተክ ምዕ 2፥14-15)

    Therefore, true believers won't be trapped by the above writing, if it refers to Siant TekleHaimanot, because what the messgage is the prayer of the saint so powerful and can give abundant blessings for the soul and the flesh, interpreting it conistent with the tradition and approach of the Bible. We know what we expect from the saints and what God has given them in return for their dedication and love - they only intercede us to get blessings and help in our struggle against Satan and effort to continue to be within the salvation of Christ. The Bible says the appostels would seat on 12 thrones to judge the world; for people like you this is "incorrect and need to be deleted." However, it is a truth for us and the writing is consitent with this bibilcal writing tradition. You are simply burning you hair and misinterpreting the writings to end up in disarray and deadly trap. If you believe in the "faith" of the pentes, go and join them. If you don't like the saints, you can go to places where they practice hate for these people. However, at EOTC, we like the saints and venerate them as they are the most chosen children of Christ. If you pretend to like the Father while hating the children, do you think your faith will be appreacited by God? We love the saints, but we worship only God, the creator of heavens and earth. God is so generous that He has given us His glory, life and all He has. That is why we read some times some uniqe qualities of God being referenced to the saints. If you don't believe in the power of the prayers of the saints, sorry that is your problem, not EOTC's. If you mix up the salvation of Christ and the blessings we get through the saints, sorry that is also your problem, not ours. However, I advise yo not to deceive innocent people by taking phrases out of context and implying a wrong interpretation that exists only in your and your likes' minds. For us, we know who Christ is and who the saints are.... The ge'edel is for you while the GEDLE is for us.

    will continue....

    ReplyDelete
  2. ከላይ አስተያየት የሰጠኸው ሰው፦ አሁን መልስ መስጠትህ ነው? እስኪ ስለ ተቅማጡ እና ስለ ዶሮው ጭንቅላትም የገባህን ንገረን። አየህ እንዴት የስህተት ትምህርቶችን ከመፅሐፍ ቅዱስ ጋር ለማስታረ ቅ ስንማስን? አንተ ኃጢአትን የሚያነፃ ተክለሃይማኖት ነው ብለህ የምታምን ከሆነ እንግዲህ እግዚአብሔር ይሁንህ። መጽሐፍ ቅዱስ የሚነግረን ኃጢአትን የሚያነጻ ግን አንድ እና አንድ ነው። አይ ኢየሱስ ክርስቶስም ኃጢአቴን ያነጻል፣ ተክለሃይማኖትም ኃጢአቴን ያነጻል ነው የምትለው? በጋራ ነው ኃጢአትህን የሚያነጹት? የኃጢዓት ስርየት በደም ብቻ እንደሆነ መጽሐፍ ቅዱስ አስረግጦ ይነግረናል። ይህ ደምም የጌታችን የኢየሱስ ክርስቶስ ደም ብቻ ነው። በዚህ ደም ታምነን ስንመለስ ብቻ ነው የኃጢዓት ስርየት የምናገኘው። ይህንን ተጠራጠራለህ? እስኪ የቅዱስ ጳውሎስ መልዕክታትን አንድ ቀን ወስደህ አንብባቸው። እንዲህ አይነት የክህደት ትምህርቶችን መጽሐፍ ቅዱሳዊ ለማስመሰል መከራን ከማየት ይልቅ እውነቱን እውነት፤ ጠማማውን ጠማማ ብሎ ማስተካከሉ ይበጀናል። ሰላም ለሁላችን

    ReplyDelete
  3. Tewahedo,

    I did already under those postings. What people fail to understand is the fact that SALVATION is a journey. For the misguided pentes, salvation is a one time event - you believe in Christ and you are saved. That is it!

    Of course, we get remissions for our sins (original plus others) when we believe in Christ as the Son of God, but that is not the end of the story. It is rather the beginning of the story or the salvation process with the goal being receiving the kingdom of God or eternal life. Before we achieve that, we pass through numerous challenges (as Paul says we need to enter the kingodm of God through various sufferings and hardship) and temptations. The role of the saints is not in the remission of our original sins, which can be achieved only through the blood of Christ, but rather their role is to bring us to Christ through their prayers and to help us perfect our salvation after we have joined the union with Christ and the rest of the Christian community. So many have started the journey of salvation, but only few have finished that journey with victory. The prayers and intercession of the saints would help us finish this important jouney with victory. It is written in the Bible that the prayers of the saints are so powerful because the Ears of God are always open to them. Also, it is written that whoever gives a glass of water in the name of a saint/disciple of Christ would get the reward and blessings of that saint/disciple. That is exactly what the writer is talking about in the Gedle Tekle Haimanot. We believe all the words that Christ has told us; we don't pick and choose what we want and reject what we don't want. Otherwise, we would have been heretic like the menafiqans.

    I want to acknowledge that some of our followers are weak in abiding by the word of God. However, this is because the Bible was not being preached for many years, particularly after the Gragn Mohammed invasion and forced coversion. The church's affiliation with the ruling classes was also an issue because the emperors feard that preaching the bible would threaten their power base. However, things are changing a little bit now with the Gospel being preached at least in the cities and among the diaspora. The fact that our followers are not well versed with the bible and don't abide by the word of God does not mean that our core beliefs are wrong; rather, it means that the bible needs to be preached very aggressively. With the help of God, things will change.

    Unfortunately, some so-called reformers mistakenly believe that the problem of our church is the faith itself and start attacking St. Mary and the other saints knowingly or unknowingly in an apparent attempt to solve the problems. Our problems are not the saints - they are rather our VALUABLE PARTNERS OR FRIENDS IN PERFECTING OUR SALVATION. Our problem is the lack of bible preaching, the leadership that is hijacked by politicians and worldly life, and the enemies of our church who always plant the seeds of satan in our church. With the help of God, we will have spiritual revival while keeping our core faith and tradition intact. Of course, there are numerous books that need to be corrected, but that does not mean that our faith needs to be corrected. Our faith is purer than the sun. We just need to know and practice it.

    ReplyDelete
  4. okay Tewahedo fare enough
    wanaw yemenesemamabet yehnen naw bezih ketmamenene hulum selam naw

    "some so-called reformers mistakenly believe that the problem of our church is the faith itself"

    NO IT'S NOT
    i agree

    ReplyDelete
  5. To the the anonymous (Feb 13, 7:02). Please give yourself a name so that it is eassy to reference.

    ከክርስቶስ በተጨማሪ ለመዳናችን ቅዱሳንም ያስፈልጉናል እያልክ ይመስላል። በጸሎትም ሆነ በትምህርታቸው ቅዱሳን ወደ መድኃኒቱ ሊያቀርቡን ይችላሉ ራሳቸው ግን መድኃኒት አይደሉም። ለእነርሱም መድኃኒታቸው ራሱ ኢየሱስ ክርስቶስ ነውና። እንዳንተ አባባል በክርስቶስ አምነን ስንጠመቅ ሲወርድ ሲዋረድ ከመጣው ኃጢአት እና እስካመንበት ጊዜ ድረስ በራሳችን ከሰራነው ኃጢታት እነጻለን። ወይም እንደ ቅዱስ ጳውሎስ አባባል " አሁን ግን በሕግና በነቢያት የተመሰከረለት የእግዚአብሔር ጽድቅ ያለ ሕግ ተገልጦአል እርሱም ለሚያምኑ ሁሉ የሆነ በኢየሱስ ክርስቶስ በማመን የሚገኘው የእግዚአብሔር ጽድቅ ነው" ሮሜ 3፥21። በዚህ ሁለታችንም እንደምንስማማ ተስፋ አደርጋለሁ። በትክክል ለሚያምኑ ሁሉ ጽድቅ አላቸው፤ የእግዚአብሔር መንግስትም አላቸው፤ የዘለዓለም ህይወትም አላቸው። በነገራችን ላይ ብዙም አትደንግጥ እንጂ የቅዱስ ጳውሎስን አባባል ካስተዋልከው በክርስቶስ የሚያምን ሁሉ ጻድቅ ነው! " የሚያምኑ ሁሉ ይጸድቁ ዘንድ ክርስቶስ የህግ ፍጻሜ ነውና" ሮሜ 10፥4። ለሙሉ ደኅንነትህ ክርስቶስ በቂ ነው ብሎ መጽሐፍ ቅዱስ እየተናገረ አንተ አይ እሱ ብቻውን አያስተማምንም ሌሎች ጻድቃን ካልጸለዩልኝ ድኅንነት የለኝም ደኅንነቴንም ልፈጽም አልችልም የምትል ትመስላለህ። በተክክል ተረድቼህ ከሆነ ተክለሃይማኖት ኃጢአትን የሚያነጹት ወደ ክርስቶስ በማመልከት ነው። እንዲዚያ ከሆነ "ኃጢአትን ያነጻሉ" ብሎ መናገር አግባብ ነው? በክርስቶስ የምናምን ሁሉ ልጆች እንደሆንን ስለዚህም የመንግስቱ ወራሾች እንደሆንን ካላመንን ክርስትናችንን ልንመረምር የቆምንበትም መሰረት ልንጎበኝ ያስፈልገናል ባይ ነኝ።

    ሌላው ይሄ ድኛለሁ - እየዳንሁ ነው -- እድን ይሆናል የሚል የተምታታ እና የጥርጥር ክርስትና ከየት እንዳመጣኸው አላውቅም። እድን ይሆናል ምናምን ማለት እምነት አይደለም። እሱ ጥርጥር ነው። ጽድቅ ወይ ይጠጥሐል ወይ አይሰጥህም። ሂደት የምተለው ነገር የአንዳንድ ቢጽ ሀሳውያን ትምህርት ካልሆነ በቀር የቤተክርስቲያናችን ትምህርት አይደለም።

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  6. Tewahedo,
    We need both Christ and the saints because of our weakness and sinful life. Again, the reason we need the saints is not that the blood of Christ is insufficient, but rather because we are sinful/weak and need their help in our struggle against satan. Yes, for those who are always in Christ and follow His words, they don't have any condemnation, but eternal life. Yes, all those who believe in Christ and abide by His words are saints according to the Bible. However, the question is: do you consider yourself equivalent to the saints? Do you think your prayers are heard as much as those of the saints? For example, St George suffered a lot and died multiple times for the sake of Christ. Do you think you and this martyr have equal status in the kingdom of God or in the face of God?
    If you are certain that you are fully and completely following the word of God, then you don't need any saint to pray for you. However, I know my weakness and sinful life, I need the prayers of the saints and their blessings to perfect my salvation. Again, their intercession is not a replacement for the blood of Christ. One of the problems of menafiqans is that they read what is not written while they skip or gloss over what is written. Please re-read what i have written. Even if the saints are not the true medicine, they are sometimes called as the medicine because of their role in bringing us to the true medicine, Christ Jesus. I have given a number of examples from the Bible, but you don't want to read. Another example from our day to day life. People who get healed from a serious disease would always praise the Medical Doctor who may have prescribed the medicine as their healer while we know the healer is the TABLET/MEDICINE that the doctor may have prescribed. The doctor is being praised for the work of the medicine, like a guy who got healed after taking LIPITOR would praise the doc who gave him the LIPITOR that truely did the healing. Similarly, the medicine is Christ and the Doctors are the saints who would prescribe to us Christ as the medicine. Do you think we don't need the doctors, in our case the saints?
    Even the saints request other Christians to pray for them. If you read the epistles of St. Paul, he always asks Christians to pray for him so that he can aggressively disseminate the message of the Gospel. Are you better than St. Paul? You be the judge...
    As to me, I am the weakest of the weaks and always need the support and blessings of the saints. I believe Christ is always there to help me, but I annoy Him with my sins and the prayers of the saints will get me his patience and merci - get saved from judgment. Do you know Christ would spit you out if you fail to abide by His words and become lukewarm? The prayers of the saints would help us not to be spit out or not to be lukewarm... I would have wanted to write a longer piece, but few words are enough for a believing heart and a wise person....

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  7. Thanks annonymous above! Your explanation of the role of the saints is the best I have heard so far. I think I have heard Abba woldetensae Ayalneh (one of the best preachers I have heard) explained that way (the medicine and doctor analogy). So when Gedle Teklehaimanot says ለነፍሳችሁ መዳኛ፤ ኃጢዓታችሁን የሚያነፃ ተከለሃይማኖት ነው ሲባል ተክለ ሃይማኖት በጸሎታቸው፤ በትምህርታቸው ወደ መድኃኒቱ፤ ኃጢዓትን ወደሚያነጻው ወደ ክርስቶስ እንድንቀርብ ይረዱናል ማለት ነው። ጥሩ በዚህ እስማማለሁ ግን በህይወት እያሉ ይህን ያረጉ ነበር ቢባል ነው የሚያስኬደው። በአሁኑ ሰዓት ከሞቱ በሁዋላ ቅዱስ ተከለሃይማኖትም ሆኑ ቅዱስ ጳውሎስ ጸሎታችንን እየሰሙ በነፍስ እያሉ ያደርጉት የነበረውን (ከዚያም የበለጠ) ያደርጋሉ የሚለውን ግን ገና አልተቀበልኩትም። በርግጥ አምላካችን ስለ ቅዱሳኑ ሲል፤ ስለ ገባላቸው ቃል ኪዳን ሲል ብዙ ያደርጋል። ለአብርሃም በገባለት ቃል ኪዳን መሰረት ነው ተወልዶ ዓለምን ያዳነው። አብርሃምን ግን የነፍሳችን መዳኛ ነው አንለውም። ወይም ደግሞ ጌታችን ተወልዶ ያዳነን አብርሃም አብርሃምን ጠይቀነው እሱም ጸልዮልን አይደለም። ቅዱሳን ልክ እንደ አምላክ የዓለምን ሁሉ ህዝብ ጸሎት እየሰሙ ወደ አምላካቸው ያመለክታሉ የሚል ከመጽሐፍ ቅዱስ አንብቤ አላውቅም።

    ሌላው ከላይ ስለቅድስና ስልከው አስተያየት፦ አንድ ማወቅ ያለብን ጽድቅ ጸጋ ነው። እንደ ቃሉ ማለት ነው። ጽድቃችን ደግሞ እንደስራችን ሳይሆን እንደቸርነቱ መጠን ነው። ጻድቅ ነን ስንል በክርስቶስ ድፍረት ስላለን ነው። በእርሱ ከተማመንክ በእርሱ ካመንክ ልጁ ነህ እና አይጥልህም። እምነት ማለት እንደዚህ ነው።

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    Replies
    1. በገዛ እጃችን ከማብዛት መከራን ፣
      ሞትን እናስተግድ ድምጻችንን ቀብረን፣
      የንስሀን ጊዜም አሟጠን ጨርሰን፣
      እሄው ቁጭ ብለናል ፍርድን እየጠበቅን፣
      አንተ በሄድክበት እኛም አልተከተልን፣
      ምክንያት በመፈለግ እየተጠቃቀስን፣
      እየተረዳዳን ጉድጔድ እየቆፈርን፣
      እርቀን ሄደናል መመለሻም የለን፣
      እዛው በፍርድ ቀን እንናገኛለን፣
      በጻድቃኖቻችን እየተስተናገድን፣
      አንተ ወዲህ ስትቀር እኛም እንገባለን።

      Delete
  8. Tewahedo,

    Eterna Life = Faith X Deeds

    Subject to : Faith >= 0; Deeds >= 0

    ---> If either Faith or Deeds are Zero (0), then the output, savation, becomes zero (multiplicative, not additive). Of course, salvation is a free gift. Whatever we do, it does not equate to what Jesus has done and will do for us. Please also note that you could lose the gift if you don't live within the framework or contraints of the gift. Do you know the devil believes in Christ? However, he does not have eternal life because he is evil in thoughts and deeds. I believe in tsega throgh Christ, but I also believe that faith without deeds is like an empty kettle. I don't want ot be an empty kettle.

    If you don't believe in the fact that the saints and the angels are with us in the spirit, sorry I can only say that you are not orthodox. If you don't believe in the covenant between the saints and God, sorry I suspect you are pente. These things are pretty basic for an orthodox Christian. If you genuinely want to learn, then we can continue the discussion.

    You can read the angel praying for isreael in the Prophecy of Zekaria. It is also written in the Gospel about the fact that the saints can hear and see what is happening in this world. Example, the converstion between Abreham and the condemned rich man. I think it is good to ask if one wants to establish an understanding or learn. However, if you have already made up your mind that Pente is right, you better go join that group instead of pretending to be an othodox. Religion is a personal choice and no one would condemn you for that. Nevertheless, it would be a serious offence against God for anyone to wear a sheep skin and join the herd of Christ to only kill the unuspecting innocent folks. Your claim to be an orthodox and your denial of the saints are not consistent. One of the factors that separate us from penete or menafiqan is the question of the saints, angels and martyrs. While we believe in the saints, angels and martyrs, the pentes consider them as dead "dogs" - literally. They have a "famous" quote to imply this. Egziabhere yekir yebelachew! Yehenen yahel torinet kekidusan gar ayegebam neber.

    FYI, the lithurgy was written over a thousand years before. In all the lithurgies, we pray to Sts. Paul and Peter appreciating their leeters/epistels and asking them for their prayers. Example, we say the following after one of the epitels of Paul is read:

    "kiduse hawariaw paulos:- senai meleket fewase duan zenasike aklile seal weseley bentena yeadhen nefsatene bebezeha sahilu wemihiretu bente semu kidus"

    Meaning:

    "Oh! St Paul, your message is great. It heals those who are sick! You received crowns from God. Please pray for us so that Christ Jesus can save our soul for the sake of His Holy name with His abundant mercy."

    If you grew up singing this in the lithurgy, what would make you doubt it now? The alien spirit of the pentes...

    My suggestion to all Pentes, reformers etc.. go preach to islamic and animist people instead of toiling a land that has a rightful tiller assigned by Christ Jesus. However, I like and apprecaite this discusion bcause it will help bring revival of Christianity if done in a healthy way.

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  9. annonymous above, thanks for a mature discussion. This is how we should continue to discuss. I can assure you that I am an orthodox christian. Serve in a Sunday school since I was 7 and still serve in a church as a Sunday school. Love my church. Look, raising questions doesn't make me Pente. If supported by the Bible, any "Pente teaching" is also okay with me. I am only interested in what the Bible says and wants to teach. I don't care what denominations say. No denomination is perfect, so I choose to just stick with the Bible.

    I don't neccessarily agree with your equation above. I would like to modify your equation, but first a word from Christ "I am the vine, you are the branches. Those who abide in me and I in the bear much fruit" John 15:5. Based on this and several similar messages from the Bible, deed is an output instead of an input as you have suggested. When you believe in Christ, you become the branch of the vine. Once you become the branch of the vine, you will have fruits (deeds). The way you become the branch is through faith; therefore, I can also argue that eternal life = faith. We do deeds not to gain eternal life. We do deeds through love and because we have been given eternal life. If we do not have the fruits of the spirit mentiond in Galatians, it just means that we have not become branchs of the great Vine.

    Let me ask you an important question: the following are the fruit of the spirit mentioned in Galatians 5

    love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,Meekness, temperance

    How do you achieve these? are these considered deeds? How can one say from now on " I will excersise love peace..."? can you do that? Do you think you can achieve these things through your effort?

    Another question for you: how do you know when you have enough deeds? According to your equation, anything above zero will get you salvation?

    Good discussion. God bless you!

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  10. Tewahedo,

    If you don't believe in deeds as important part of a Christian life (to be exact as a condition for continued relationship with Christ), please read the epistle by Apostle Jacob, who would tell you that "Faith without deeds is dead." This clearly emphasizes the importance of combining the two in order to get eternal life. Of course, we are supposed to do all we are asked to do with the love of Christ and love of the good deeds. All the fruits of the Spirit that you mentioned follow faith in Christ; however, the fact that one comes after the other does not make it less important or does not warrant its removal from the equation.

    Some of the fruits of the Spirit just happen naturally for those who have grown well in Christ, but some may require conscious effort for all. For example, someone may upset you so much and many evil thoughts and anger may cross your mind as a result. However, the Holy Spirit would remind you through your heart and conscious that your anger and evil thoughts are non-Christian; then, you consciously restrain yourself and rebuke the bad spirit, choosing good over evil. This conscious effort to side with Holy Spirit is a deed. Faith in Christ gives you the power to choose good and prevail on evils; however, this is a conscious choice - the faith does not transform us fully and completely to another being; we still live in the flesh, which is corrupt and weak (of course, we would receive the non-corrupting body after resurrection and this body is strong and cannot commit any sin, which will be thrown altogether into eternal fire).

    Yes, you consciously choose peace over turmoil; yes, you consciously choose love over hate even if it may be painful; yes, you consciously choose gentleness over arrogance; yes, you consciously choose goodness over badness etc... This choice may be difficult for some, but it may be easy for others depending on their stage of Christianity and personality traits. However, both have chosen the good over the evil and would receive the same Kingdom of God.

    Lastly, I wonder how you would teach the faith that you seem to doubt. Did you say you teach at EOTC Sunday School, attending it since 7? Very surprising! There is nothing wrong with attending it, but I wonder what you have learned for the last at least 20 years - I assume you are at least 27 years old.

    Regarding the Bible, many people and groups say their reference is the Bible, but we see them using it for their own end. If all listened to the Holy Spirit, we would not have so many denominations. Some listen to their own thoughts; some listen to their bellies; and yet some listen to satan while reading the word of God. Fortunately, the Holy Spirit has interpreted the Bible to our Holy forefathers, who were able to put together the core faith and interpretation as they heard it from the Holy Spirit. Many falsely claim to have heard from the Holy Spirit and have even gone to the extent of denying Christ Himself and the Holy Spirit using the Bible as a reference. For example, Arewos, Mekdonewos etc. were using the Bible to destroy the church, but the Holy Spirit guided our forefathers to the truth.

    Therefore, the Bible is subject to interpretation and you have to be careful when you read it. Need to study it from the right source first; need to pray to get guidance from God etc... If you believe in the Bible, our core faith has not come out of any other source, but the Bible. Otherwise, don't cheat yourself by claiming as a believer of the Bible and doubting the core faith of the church where you claim to belong. I wonder how you could attend the liturgy if you have problems with the core faith of the church. Raising questions is very good, but denying the core faith that you claim to be part of is alarming...

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  11. Ok you don't have to work hard to spin my thoughts in the wrong way. I do believe our deeds are an important part of our chrstian life. And Yes, faith without works and works without faith is dead as Jacob makes it clear. And No, I have not removed it from the equation. I just moved it to the othehr side of the equation (where it belongs). You see, you believe you earn eternal life, but I don't. Eternal life is given to me through His grace. "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast" ephesians 2:8-9 Is this not clear to you? Does this leave any ambiguity? St. Paul then says "For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness" Galatians 5:6. በአማርኛ በፍቅር የሚሰራ እምነት ይለዋል። በትክክል አምነህ ከሆነ እምነትህ የሚሰራ እምነት እንጂ የሞተ አይደለም። እስኪ ይህንን ደግሞ አንብበው "ለሚሰራ ደሞዝ እንደ ዕዳ ነው እንጂ እንደ ጸጋ አይቆጠርለትም ነገር ግን ለማይሰራ ኃጢአተኛውንም በሚያጸድቅ ለሚያምን እምነቱ ጽድቅ ሆኖ ይቆጠርለታል" ሮሜ 3፥23 ምን ለማለት የፈለገ ይመስልሃል? ጽድቅ ጸጋ መሆኑን ታምናለህ? So the question is: are we justified by faith alone? Or as you are suggesting we need our works to be justified. There is no question we are justified through faith alone.

    By the way, I didn't say I teach sunday school. I am still learning! And you didn't answer my second question .how much good deeds do you need to achieve eternal life? since good deed is on the left side of your equation, you need to be able to quantify it.

    God bless

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  12. 1. Deed is relative and there is no minimum or maximum number. We are expected to work according to the gift we have been given. Example, the woman who gave her only 10 cents did much better than those who gave from their excess profit. Moreover, Feyatawi ZeYeman believed and immediately got eternal life because that was the maximum he could have done given the circumstance. His only deed was to express his faith in words and rebuke the other guy who was trying to admonish Jesus.

    2. We are justified by faith. However, "justification by faith" means whatever amount of work we do, it does not justify the blessings and/or eternal life we are getting from God. The deed is simply an indication or symbol of our allegiance or loyalty or love to God or an expression of faith. If you don't have it, you cannot expect life. God always judges us based on the gift and opportunity we have been given. Demas had faith, but love of women diverted his attention, whereby he abandoned his task for the sake of the beautiful women while he had the chance to serve - I suppose this guy failed and got whatever price would be given to a failed soul.

    3.Everything we get is by the grace of God, leave alone eternal life. However, it does not mean that deed is not in the equation. Who reduced the formula to "eternal life = faith"? Do we see deed in the equation here?

    4. What we need to ask is: How will God judge us when He comes again? Is He going to judge us just by our faith? The fact is He would put on a scale the deeds we may be doing while in faith. That is why we say Eternal Life = Faith X Deeds. Again, deed is relative. Again, we are saved by His Grace - no one lent God anything to deserve His Crucifixion on the Cross for our sake. Whatever deed we may do, we cannot say we are saved by our deeds because our deed is simply an expression of our love and loyalty to Him. However, there is no way you can get eternal life without that expression or deed.

    Hope this helps.

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  13. I really appreciate this discussion. The more we talk the more we are moving to the same page:

    Here is the correct equation: Faith = eternal life + deeds. This equation accurately captures the concept in the Bible. You have to believe to bear the fruit. When you believe, the Holy Spirit in you starts to work. If no fruit, the faith needs to be questioned (or it is a dead faith). If you trully believe in what Christ has done for you, you will bear fruit!!!! That's why St. Paul says "the fruit of the spirit". It is the Holy Spirit that bears the fruit in you. You see, we just need to figure out where our focus should be. On the strength of our faith or on the number of deeds ?

    I think the problem you are having is that you don't realize the power of faith. If you have faith that's not dead, bearing fruit is effertless! If you don't bear fruit, you don't have faith.

    "Whatever deed we may do, we cannot say we are saved by our deeds because our deed is simply an expression of our love and loyalty to Him." Well said. Like it. But you then confuse it by saing you need your deeds to be saved. Your sentence and your equation is not consistent.

    Another important point: What is eternal life to you? Do you think you have it now? Are you thinking this is something you will start living after you die (in flesh)? I believe (and the Bible agrees with me) that I have eternal life effective now! I start living it now. Because I am the king's child. You see, with your equations you can not even be sure if you have/will have eternal life. I have confidence in Christ that I have eternal life. Hope and pray that you have this confidence.

    God bless

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  14. I believe and hope I have eternal life in Christ effective now. However, don't forget there is a JUDGE, Christ Jesus, and there is A JUDGEMENT DAY that no one knows when it is.

    According to the words of God, Jesus will come for the second time and seprate the good from the bad.

    Some unfortunate guys who hear a bad news would argue with Him saying that they did many things in His name, preached in His name etc., but Jesus would answer to them "go away from me; I don't know you." Mind you these folks would have faith in Christ, but would lack good deeds.

    While this kind of judgment is hanging over us, it is better to focus on how we can please God and save our soul, instead of trying to become a judge for ourselves. However, we have the courage to say that we have eternal life effective immediately if we are following fully and completely the word of God, for example like St Paul and the other saints. Of course, all christians have eternal life and follow Christ with that hope and belief, but do all believers truely follow Him? Otherwise, there would not be judgment day.

    The main question is whether our deed will still stand out when tested by fire, like Paul says.

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  15. Thank you sir, this is the best discussion I have had with a fellow Orthodox Christian. I think we both agree that bearing fruit is important. As long as you don't believe we do deeds/good works to earn eternal life, we are both on the same page. Our only differnce is the following:

    You believe you achieve the fruit of the spirit (ፍቅር፤ ደስታ፤ ሰላም፤ ትዕግስት፤ ቸርነት፤ በጎነት፤ እምነት፤ የውሃት፤ ራስን መግዛት)throght your conscious effort. But I believe these fruits happen to me through my faith in Christ and as a result of the work of the Holy Spirit. Not my effort. I know and you know that የዋህ እንሁን ብለን ወደ የዋህነት መለወጥ እንደማንችል። እግዚአብሔር መንፈስ ቅዱስ ግን ይህንን ማድረግ ይችላል።

    "በእኔ ኑሩ እኔም በእናንተ። ቅርንጫፍ በወይኑ ግንድ ባይኖር ከራሱ ፍሬ ሊያፈራ እንዳይቻለው፥ እንዲሁ እናንተ ደግሞ በእኔ ባትኖሩ አትችሉም። እኔ የወይን ግንድ ነኝ እናንተም ቅርንጫፎች ናችሁ። ያለ እኔ ምንም ልታደርጉ አትችሉምና በእኔ የሚኖር እኔም በእርሱ፥ እርሱ ብዙ ፍሬ ያፈራል።" ዮሐ 15፥4-5

    To take our discussion to the next level (if neccessary), we may need to clearly define key terms such as: Faith, Being justified, eternal life. Those people who claim to do many things in his name, preached in his name ... Did they have true faith in Christ? I would argue NO! If you define faith as acknowledging His existence, his power, who he is etc then you can say they have faith. But that's not the faith the Bible talks about. በዮሐንስ ወንጌል እንደተጻፈው በእርሱ የሚያምን ሁሉ እንዳይጠፋ አንድያ ልጁን ልኮልናልና። እንግዲህ በርሱ የሚያምን ሲል ስሙን የጠራ፤ በስሙ የሰበከ፤ ኢየሱስ ኢየሱስ ያለ ወዘተ እንዳልሆነ እንድናስተውል ይገባል።

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  16. Did they preach in His name without having faith? Did they get baptized without faith?

    You can get the answer if you open your eyes and look around yourself - sorry I am not being judgmental.

    - Look the Bishops/Priests in the US/Europe who have been involved in sex scandals.
    - Look the pastors who are officialy gay or lesbian.
    - Look some folks who try to serve God and yet steal money from Churches like Judas.
    - Look our own bishops who have given primacy to politics instead of the main cause that they have been ordained for.
    - Look ourselves who fall every now and then... sometimes comit adultery... sometimes hate our own brothers... etc...
    - Look the hatred between MK and Tehadso

    All the above have faith, but they have made themselves servant of sin in one way or another. Please don't equate Faith with Holiness... Faith leads to holiness when you practice it - deed!!!

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  17. I am really proud that EOTC has people like you (anonymous)!!! This person (ተዋሕዶ ) is Tehdso on the way to Pente. I wish he stops calling himself ተዋሕዶ.

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  18. "ተዋህዶ እና ኣናንመስ" you are the same coins with different face.do not fool your self.

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  19. Very wise, matured, profetional and interesing discussion, good job both. After reading the discusion I am more convinced by Tewahdo, he got very clear and good points, supported by the word of God. "faith with out deed(work) is dead" that means no faith. no faith no deed. Tehadso is some thing we all need, be aimero metades. I used to hate that term, but now I want to talk to them and be around them. I found a perpose to live and love of God more and read the bible more with love. I will have to stay away from tereteret and empty jebdegnenet. Weather we like it or not Tehadeso is around us. To think EOTC is clean and blameless, it is just rasen matalel. all the problems we have is the fruit of our faith. we need to check our faith ....

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  20. Dear Anonymous: Just some toughts

    1 - "Deed is relative and there is no minimum or maximum number."

    The deed chapter loved by "not by faith alone" James 2 Verse 10 says break 1 break all.


    My undestanding according to James (Jacob) is
    Dead is actual, Minimum = Maximum (Perfection)

    2 - "The ge'edel is for you while the GEDLE is for us." I don't think you need the TEKEMAT in the GEDLE

    3 - "The bible needs to be preached very aggressively. With the help of God, things will change." TRUE I wonder if that makes you reformer.

    4 - "SALVATION is a journey " the question is are you saved now?


    5 - "Do you think your prayers are heard as much as those of the saints? For example, St George suffered a lot and died multiple times for the sake of Christ. Do you think you and this martyr have equal status in the kingdom of God or in the face of God?"

    - As a chile of God, don't you believe that your heavenly father hears your prayers, even know before you pray?

    - What make you sure that St George died multiple times

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  21. kita eras neh betewahdo yeteseyemkew sew egzabher mastewalun ystih?

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  22. oky now i truly understand u r pente.beginning from this i will n't surprise what ever u wrote b/c u r davel's messanger to destroy christinity(remember dutch pente leader says on bbc god doesn't exist).so this is ur aim.

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  23. በእውነትም ዓይን አላቸው አያዩም ጆሮ አላቸው አይሰሙም በአጠቃላይ ማስተዋላቸውን በክፉው የተቀሙ ወገኖቻችን እጅግ የበዛ የምልጃ ጸሎት የሚያስፈልጋቸው ናቸውና የህይወት ትርጉሙ በክርስቶስ ብቻ መሆኑ የገባችሁ ወንድሞች እባካችሁ አብዝተን እንዘንላቸው ከፍቅር ሌላም እዳ አይኑርብን:: የብርሃን መልአክ መስሎ ወገኖቻችንን የሚጫወትባቸውን የክፉ ሃሳብ አንስተውምና ውጊያችን ከድምና ከሥጋ ጋር አይሁን::

    የምህረት አምላክ ለምድራችን!!!

    ሰላም ሁኑልኝ

    ሰላም ነኝ

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    Replies
    1. Funny Wolf. What kind of Jesus u r telling us baby. Eotc never ever preach like that but wolfs are too dum smart

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  24. በመዳን ዙሪያ ተጽፎ ስላየሁ ነው። እስከ መጨረሻ የሚጸና ይድናል ማቴ 24፡13 እንዴት ያዩታል።

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  25. see your self first.don't judge to any body plsssssss

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  26. YOU ARE SO LATE ,TO PREACH US, BECAUSE YOU (PROTESTANTS)HAVE RICH TO EXTINCT.

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  27. Menafikaan geta iskigeletilachew litasminwachwew atichilum.Getam yegehanem dejoch bilwachwalina.

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  28. I wishe everybody come together to follow Jesus Christ. He is the way the truth to go to Heaven.Please do not confused us by calling different denomenation there is no point to that one say Protestant and other say Tewahdo and Tehadso what is wrong with all you people? Focuse on The father, the son and the holey sprit.After all if you do not have love you all nothing nothing nothing. where is the love? The bible teach us to love one another. if you say you love God love your brother also. otherwise you do not know God.

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  29. Actually it is too late and too far. This is not the begining for eotc. Let me tell u you are speeding for Your own distruction

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  30. Demon is getting wild out there. We r not simple mind like u May God forgive u Do u think we are bot able toi distiguish thee wolf from Sheep?

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  31. Hebrew 11 & hebrew 13 We all know about tehadiso objective immoral behave . It is very simple. Tehadiso menafikans are try to divert with simple personal and private issue. This is not the gaspole of Jesus our Godmessage. We never ever saidholy and saint abune tekele haymanot saver of the sin of Adam and eve but however let me say I am prostitute, dranker, rude, thief and etc but when someone it may be tehadiso but they are full of simple mind anyway ,tehadiso advice me that all those habit is bad and they stop me and change me the right direction so tehadiso are the saviour of my life they save my life that is it why you tehadiso b? But it must to come we are living the last days «meseded lewut ayametam» 2 timoty 2 :16 _19 2timoty 3 and 4

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